Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. , 54 people all shooting themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Because its flat out bull**it. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. 01:10. How about something more relevant. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. The P320 pistol is a dog. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? The problem was strikers. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. You arent a gunfighter, either. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. And have the dropping 320 go off? I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Plastic crap! I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. I continue to bet my life on them. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. Thats deflecting from the real issue. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. Trust a P365 with your life. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. Liberal, Conservative. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. (unless theyre SWAT or something). These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. One hell of a conspiracy. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Would you? to docile, too subtle, to contextual. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. . Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. I dont own a P320. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. They didnt have to, but did. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. Its a novelty, its got issues! First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. U.S. lawsuits Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Mine is very accurate. Whether or not the suits have merit. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Thats the same. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Good job! To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. But this time, the sound bites used were different. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. About $300. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. On Thursday, M.D. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. Still waiting. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand.