Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. See the foam bench and the corners. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. rev2023.3.3.43278. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. GoBoard Vs. Kerdi For Your Shower: In-depth Comparison Best substrate for kerdi membrane - nsbu.treviso-aug.it Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . We sponge water onto the cement board. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? In . RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. Some being easier to work with than others. kerdi membrane over osb Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. Hi David. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. 1. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. I imagine we could share some good stories. Why you use cement board? True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. Is it Sinful to put Kerdi over Hardi-backer? - Houzz You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. The shower is ready for tile. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. The site is called floorelf.com. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. that's home depot homeowner installation method. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. To line niche shelves, for instance. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. 120 sq feet including the floor. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. Step 3: Apply Thinset. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. It only takes a minute to sign up. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Any recommendations? Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. Kerdi Board Vs. Cement Board (What's The Difference?) - Home Mindset Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. Kerdi-Board is an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with reinforcing material on both sides, covered by fleece webbing for effective anchoring of thin-set mortar. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. . I appreciate your help and your quick response. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Kerdi vs Redguard cost breakdown. : r/HomeImprovement - reddit Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. We want that inside corner able to move. I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. To line niche shelves, for instance. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. How to install a kerdi membrane over cement backer board - Quora When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. Wedi Board vs Cement Board vs Kerdi Board - The Ultimate Home Living Blog Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. Also - use a good thinset. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. There are numerous ways to do this. Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. Fixing that is not that easy though. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. How to prep a shower for tile with Schluter Kerdi - TwoFeetFirst PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. I simply sponge off the excess. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? New England. Kerdi Membrane Installation (Step-by-Step Installation Guide) Do you have any pictures? The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. The colour is different. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . But a mortar bed does have advantages. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! . What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. Thanks to all for the feedback. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife.